Show Notes
Everything you know about getting found online is about to be obsolete. For two decades, founders chased one algorithm — backlinks, page speed, keyword stuffing, the whole exhausting machine. Then a handful of chatbots quietly took the wheel, and now they decide which businesses get recommended and which ones get ghosted. SEO is bleeding out. Google traffic is leaking. A huge slice of buyers now ask ChatGPT to pick their solution before a human ever enters the conversation.
Here is the twist that should make every founder sit up straight: the playing field is wide open for the first time in twenty years. Tiny brands are outranking billion-dollar incumbents. Unknown podcasts are beating the giants. The new game is not about who has the biggest backlink pile. It is about who tells the clearest story.
In this return visit, Jenna Hannon, co-founder and CMO of Hatter, runs a live tactical teardown using Ryan's own podcast page as the guinea pig. She walks through what AI search actually rewards, why a lead who found you through ChatGPT shows up on the call already sold, and the exact content structure that gets your brand cited instead of buried. She also drops the unglamorous truth about where AI pulls its recommendations from — and it is probably not where you think.
This is your chance to control your narrative before the bots write it for you.
Frameworks from This Episode
The Three Names, One Thing Principle
The category has a branding problem. AEO, GEO, AI search. They sound different. They are not.
- ›AEO stands for answer engine optimization.
- ›GEO stands for generative engine optimization.
- ›AI search is the plain-language version.
- ›All three describe the same goal: showing up inside AI chatbots. Ignore the LinkedIn posts insisting they are separate disciplines.
The Magical Moment
The new tell that AI search is working for you.
- ›A lead arrives having done their research inside a chatbot, not a Google rabbit hole.
- ›They already know they have a problem and that you are one of the few recommended solutions.
- ›They land on the call warm, informed, and close to buying.
- ›The chatbot's endorsement carries trust, because the user already treats the AI like a trusted advisor.
Visibility Over Clicks
The metric shift that breaks old SEO thinking.
- ›Old SEO measured clicks and traffic to your site.
- ›AI search measures visibility: how often you are recommended and mentioned.
- ›It also measures citation: how often your actual URL gets dropped in the answer.
- ›It also measures sentiment: what the AI is actually saying about you, accurate or not.
Structure Beats Markdown
What LLMs actually reward inside your content.
- ›Short, dense paragraphs over long meandering essays.
- ›Question-based subheadings, because if the AI sees the question, it expects the answer right below it.
- ›Real facts, figures, and stats that signal research went in.
- ›Define your terms inline — name a concept, then describe it concisely in the same breath.
The Citation Source Hierarchy
Where AI recommendations actually come from, ranked by what moves the needle.
- ›Your own website content sits at the top, far above social.
- ›Press coverage matters, but context matters more than the logo — a positive, on-narrative Forbes mention beats a neutral one.
- ›Press releases over the wires, including PR Newswire, genuinely help.
- ›Wikipedia is huge, and not only your own page — being mentioned on industry pages counts.
- ›Reddit, LinkedIn, and YouTube move the needle far less than the hype suggests.
Founder Experiment: The Incognito AI Audit
Open a fresh incognito browser so the AI has no priors on you. Ask ChatGPT the exact question your ideal customer would type to find a solution like yours. Do not name yourself. Watch who gets recommended.
- 1Open an incognito window. Ask ChatGPT the question your ideal customer types when searching for a solution like yours — without naming your company.
- 2Note every brand that gets recommended. Those are your benchmarks.
- 3Now ask the AI directly what it knows about your company. Read the answer with cold eyes: is the information right? Is it on narrative? Is it even there?
- 4Run the same query in your normal logged-in account. Notice how the answer shifts because the AI knows your browsing history. That gap between the two results is your homework list.
The deliverable: A list of factual gaps, narrative gaps, or missing citations that currently prevent AI chatbots from recommending you. That list is your AI search content roadmap.
Key Terms
Tools from This Episode
Hatter
Tech-enabled SEO and AI search platform — helps brands show up inside ChatGPT, Claude, and Perplexity recommendations with a real-time dashboard and human experts who understand your business.
Q&A
What is the difference between SEO and AEO?
SEO ranks you in Google through backlinks, page speed, and keyword optimization. AEO — answer engine optimization — gets you recommended inside AI chatbots based almost entirely on how clearly and credibly you tell your story. The underlying content signals overlap, but the output your customer sees is completely different.
Why are tiny brands outranking billion-dollar companies in AI search?
Because AI search rewards clarity of story and density of credible content, not the size of your backlink portfolio. A small brand that articulates exactly what it does, who it serves, and what problems it solves can outrank a Fortune 500 company that has never had to explain itself plainly.
Why are leads from ChatGPT warmer than other leads?
Because the buyer already researched their problem inside the chatbot, received you as a trusted recommendation, and arrives on the call ready to buy rather than ready to compare. The chatbot's endorsement carries weight because users already treat AI like a trusted advisor.
How should I structure content so AI cites it?
Use short, dense paragraphs instead of long essays. Use question-based subheadings with the answer directly underneath. Include real facts, figures, and stats that signal research went in. Define your terms inline — name a concept and describe it in the same breath.
Where do AI tools actually pull their recommendations from?
Mostly your own website, then context-rich press coverage (narrative matters more than the logo), press releases over the wires, and Wikipedia mentions including industry pages. Reddit, LinkedIn, and YouTube move the needle far less than founders assume.
What metrics should I track for AI search?
Visibility (how often you are recommended), citation (how often your specific URL is referenced), and sentiment (what the AI is actually saying about you, accurate or not). Old traffic metrics do not capture whether the AI is recommending you or ignoring you.
Is the strategy different across ChatGPT, Claude, Perplexity, and Grok?
The foundational principles are the same across all of them. For most clients, the large majority of AI traffic still comes from ChatGPT, but building for clear, credible, well-structured content benefits all platforms simultaneously.
Where can I learn more about Jenna and Hatter?
Visit gethatter.ai or connect with Jenna Hannon on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/jennahannon.
Links from This Episode
- Hatterhttps://gethatter.ai
- Jenna Hannon on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/jennahannon/
- Inbox Alchemyhttps://inboxalchemy.co/
- Ninahttps://trynina.co/
- Ryan Estes on LinkedInhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/estesryan/
- AI for Foundershttps://aiforfounders.co
